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Anthea Hartig:Thank you Bill, its a true, delight and honor to be here this morning, um, and Im joined by such an incredibly illustrious group of new friends and some very familiar voices that have resonated surely within my California heart and mind for a long time. To your right, Im joined by Ellen Ullman, hello Ellen, Frances Dinkelspiel, Faith Adiele and Karen Tei Yamashita. Not to skimp at all on the depth and the thinking and the literally production of this incredible women, but we have an hour and were little late. So Im going to kind of weave in some biographical information and highlights of their thinking and lives but really want to hear their words, Ive pleased read their bios, explore their websites, read their over dozen books even more dozens of articles and post and Im using many available online and even in the old school form of things you can hold. Im inspired and challenged and know well never get to John Didions great quote to get very close to what it is about the place that Chris David we included in his article and John Christiansens master for first issue of Boom coz were all connected just you know. But let see you kind of how, how close we can get and how we can see at the conversations. What Ive asked my incredible panelist to think about beforehand is to get at the literally landscapes of the Bay Area and of Northern California and of the Golden State to first orient ourselves in the cultural landscapes of these places. So much of their work is oriented in place whether it be having a fictitious grandfather conduct over the 101 Freeway in downtown Los Angeles as guaranteed in Tropic of Orient or as Frances in her work on or it says Almen takes us deep into the ranch of period of Southern California. Their work explores how humans occupy have been displaced from, have altered, have interpreted and have reacted to their inherited environments. So Im going to ask them to see this landscape through their own eyes, through their characters eyes, through their ancestor eyes if that make sense as we share with you over the next hour. If we have time and we start backwards with Karen and if we havent picked up enough, fine, what Bill and David want us to get to in terms of the big questions whats local, whats regional, whats Californian and how do we even know, well spend some time going backwards to that order together so and Id like to leave a little time for questions but well see how we do. So Frances, get us started, let us hear what youre thinking about. Frances Dinkelspiel:So as you have mentioned Im a fifth generation Californian and on my father side, people came from as Jews from Germany in the 1850s, boat to San Francisco and to Los Angeles and they were escaping religious persecution, sort of lack of economic opportunity and they came to California which was a frontier then and found something quite unexpected which was freedom, which was ability to sort of moving a society without being labeled Jew or other as they were in Germany and they took great advantage of that opportunity in many ways, socially, economically, religiously and they really sort of became incorporated into the mainstream, became sort of part of the status quo as suppose to being outsiders and that something that I think is really important in about California and the sense that certainly starting with the Gold Rush era, it was a place that had a lot of social mobility for some people not for everybody clearly. But it was a place to come and to invent yourself and to start a new and to try new things and I think on that has always fascinated me and that was some of the stuff that I export on my first book and Im also trying to do in another book that Im working on. Just how people have come to California and you know taking advantage of the fact that there were no roads, there no telegraph services, there were few banks, there was not a lot of infrastructure and what do you do when youre a new comer with sort of a minimum of education and youre faced with this tremendous opportunities as well as tremendous pitfalls and I know California today is very different from that but I am just fascinated by that sense of opportunity and I think that sense of creating yourself you know continuous again today I mean we look at the whole internet revolution and you know beside, there are down falls and pitfalls to that but theres also this possibility in California if you set your mind to do something, you can do it and I think thats what I find really, really interesting and I like to write about. Anthea Hartig:So these were landscape especially in 19th century. Frances Dinkelspiel:Right. Anthea Hartig:Landscapes of opportunity for many. Frances Dinkelspiel:And I think a lot about the physical landscapes, I mean I am also sort of a historian, Im a journalist with history background. Anthea Hartig:Not to baptize you. Frances Dinkelspiel:Okay. [Laughs] Frances Dinkelspiel:You know Im the kind of person and Im sure Kevin you just wait to, when you go outside and you see Anthea Hartig:As Kevin will baptize you, thats more appropriate. Frances Dinkelspiel:You see a street name, you dont think if it is you know, 2013 San Francisco you think back or how do that name come to be, how do that street come to be and so I like to look at California through its layers. Anthea Hartig:Great and there many. Frances Dinkelspiel:There many. Anthea Hartig:Great, thanks for getting us started. Faith, what do you thinking about? Faith Adiele:Im really amazed Im at this panel coz Im known for disliking nature in Tinsley. I agree with Lori Anderson, Id prefer to see it on TV so and I learned that because I mean I think of myself as a Western where I grew up and in real Washington state, really dry in a dry valley and once a year we would save enough money to go to Seattle so I learned really you know early on that rain equaled to people who read book and who voted Democrat and so that was really kind of the thing that drove me to get out of there and you know led to me, misguidedly deciding to live in Boston for 16 years, in Pittsburgh for another seven years Anthea Hartig:Welcome back. Faith Adiele:Which (laughs) but yeah, I did finally I learned that as someone whos half Nordic and half Nigerian that been without sun, just activate my inner depress fin and so thats not really a good idea. So when I got to the north, to the northeast where I thought you know would be fantastic, would be so different from the west that I knew, I found a place it was intensely segregated and that was essentially refusing the possibilities of America which is this you know this opportunity to reinvent yourself and to embrace immigration and have all these different groups and so Ive found myself as a writer in exile like so many of us you write to recreate that place that you loss or in my case hadnt really existed but that I hope that would fine when I travel to Boston thinking it was the promise land. And so I was really looking for something that would integrate my family history, Im very interested in the relationship between the public and the personal and so the American dream that my Finnish and Swedish grandparents have been seeking when they came here. That legacy of immigration, the promise of civil rights movement which have brought my parents together, they were not only in a racial couple on their college campus. The African independent movement which is what my father had come to United States to prepare for to study here and then go back and lead Nigeria to independence and also my own experiences coming of age in Thailand as the first black Buddhist nun and then try to figure out how to integrate my political and my artistic and my spiritual self and that was something that just wasnt happening in the kind of old cast systems in Boston. So eventually I realized that not only was all of the rest of the world looking at California as the new frontier but those of us on the East Coast were also looking at it as the new frontier and so I moved here, finally my return to the West and found myself once again in exile, oh I thought you know it would come back and take control of my peeps and instead I found that every event I went to there were so many like me, there was another biracial Buddhist writer girl. (Laughs) Faith Adiele:She was interested in social justice issues and she was 20 years younger than I so she was going to do it for free. (Laughs) Faith Adiele:So its bit of a problem and as usual I find myself being the one whos kind of struggling as Allison said, those of us who struggle with form and who struggle with America so Im trying to work it all out now. Anthea Hartig:Thats great. I love the, also the landscape of exile and cast because I think that some of the powerful troops inherit the troops of California that of course there, there arent any of those and theyre very deep and powerful and ugly you know and, but still on top of that, so picking up on I think some points of exile maybe whatever else Ellen wants to Ellen:Actually that works up pretty well Anthea Hartig:That was nice, shes good. Ellen Ullman:Ill start with my last book, By Blood, all three of my books take place in San Francisco and the Bay Area. There were things that yesterday coz San Francisco was a place you came to coz you could do anything and I came to San Francisco in 1972 to be a lesbian you know that was what I came here for and times changed, all kinds of things turn over, over the years but Im now married, my husband sits there. (Laughs) Ellen Ullman:Its called a Husbian by the way. (Laughs) Ellen Ullman:And so it was a gathering place for women and it hasnt been thought about yesterday about with all the sub-cultures going on and all these were met. There was this lesbian culture and it was as which is kind of a problem, there was a great deal of poetry, Judy Grand, Adrian Ridge, youll probably have more names that will Anthea Hartig:K. Ryan Ellen Ullman:Yeah. And there were poetry readings and it was very lively time. Political ferment you know, where your working class or not, were you Bush was and all that. But it was an exciting time so that is part of whats happening in By Blood, takes place in mid-70s and its a wild time here, zebra killings, zodiac killer, you know, it really was Anthea Hartig:Jim Jones. Ellen Ullman:most of us and so but the patient in this book comes from the lesbian sub-culture and wants to escape it, she doesnt want to be a separatist, she wants to go into a wilder world. So thats one current writing from California, people coming to California to be what they wanted to be and the other two books take place in San Francisco and Silicon Valley. Based on my experience as a computer programmer for many years and this is writing from California because this work radiated out to the world where we are now. Being involved in it early, I sort of had a sense, I think when I started writing about it, people in 1994 had a sense of this tsunami was about to come over them but they didnt know what it was, they didnt know what programming was, was kind of a close culture and so I feel like my work was communicating the internal life of the program, the whole mind set of the digital life and programming, what it meant to program, how you had to take human thought and somehow filter it so they could be express for machine, that is the sort of writing from California that Ive been doing and it very much is at whats going on now. Im not sure its a poetry make up anymore but it certainly a technology make up and where I lived South of market, theres a story that bind every corner and you know everyones there, Twitter, Zynga, Googles going to have a downtown office Anthea Hartig:Yeah. Ellen Ullman:and so its, theres a whole mind set thats moving in with that and I dont know if theres time for me to briefly mention the surveillance society that all that has come to, in the wake up the Snowden Revelations so I do feel a lot of people who were in the old geek, gray beard and great hair community have a sense of failure now about what happened to the technology we work on. How we you know, became easy to watch people now on a very intimate basis, this troubles me, there really is a feeling that we tried, we knew that there were no hazards in here, advertisers, corporations, the government but Kitography might save us, no Kitography just if you send something encrypted it just you immediately a flag goes off and youre emails taken. So even attempts to have a private life immediately signal a watch on you and I hate to you know, give a sad picture but Ive never felt worst about technology and what has come to change our world. Anthea Hartig:What do you think? Karen Tei Yamashita:Yeah, Ive been thinking on this, on this area of technology especially and as it relays to labor and the idea of robots and how you know were going to be using robotic technology and how the iPhone is now extension our brains and thats what I think but we can talk more about that later, theyre fascinated by it. Anthea Hartig:Endlessly. Karen Tei Yamashita:I prepared something to say about the I Hotel, I mean if I were in Los Angeles I guess I could talk about the freeway but Im here so Im going to talk about the I Hotel. The International Hotel is part of the history, along history of San Francisco and those of you who well you know San Francisco on Courtney and Jackson, there was an old hotel there, it was a turn of the century, brick structure, three-stories and through the 50s and 70s it became to the 70s it became the center of Filipino town or Manila town and it was located in an interesting intersection between Chinatown and North Beach, therefore the Italians and were the Italians and the beats and in Chinatown and city lights few blocks away from the hotel so what was happening from the hotel as I chose if were a place to situate the Asian-American Movement and that history is there a radiation of communities so theres a Filipino community, Chinese community, Japanese and Korean, theres Chinatown and Japan town that are connected and there are get old neighborhoods on the East Bay in San Jose and partner Chinatowns and J towns and on the Easy Bay and Mexican, Central American and an African American towns. And the tentacles go out to the universities in particular, San Francisco State and Berkley but also Stanford and Santa Cruz and the Community Colleges and also to the motherlands of Asian immigrants so theres China and China now is at this point its Maoist China, Japan which is past the occupation but also becoming militarized in some ways because of Vietnam war, theres Korea, Southeast Asia, South Asia and then there are third world communities that are also attached to sort this radical past which are in Latin America and Africa and are very important to whats foment in here in the 60s and 70s in San Francisco. And we have to also mention the native peoples in an indigenous folks who occupy Alcatraz Anthea Hartig:Above same time Karen Tei Yamashita:Above same time and whose descendants and goes living hot California. So Im thinking here that the meaning of the international in the I Hotel is intrinsic to the work of activism and revolution and civil rights in this period. So when talking about regional voices, I think we also need to consider the complexity of movable and moving borders and border lands in which we invite and we reject and we contained immigrant and migrant refugee native, former Korean and slave people. So I think this is, its a complicated mix here thats happening so you know when you talk about local and regional its like its a larger question I think. But then in that Im going to mention two regional locations just to draw something out that I talked about in the I Hotel and one is Delano California which is Central California and its near Bakersfield and its the original center of the United Farm Workers. It was the United Farm Workers and its original formation was really organized by the Filipinos and then I was joined by the Mexican Migrant Labors, the famous names are Philip Dela Cruz, Lariat Liong and of course you know Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta. And so this is a story that I reproduce in the novel but also I want to rewrite or as an extension the writing maybe of John Steinbergbach and so Im sorting here voices of Filipino Labor and Mexican Labor and Union Labor while maintaining sort of the original inspiration for Steinbecks work and in it the voice is Steinbecks Chinese character who is Lee in East David and so in this way theres an opportunity than to speak of Filipino Labors and their stories and put them back into history and out of erasure. The second California location represented in the novel is I think indigenous Native American California and I wanted to also take its intersection with Asian American history and in particular takeover of Alcatraz at the time and the you know the participation of many activist in San Francisco with that occupation not just Asian Americans but African Americans and communist and oh, actually the way rock stars and also the incarceration of Japanese Americans and in this case in the North the Tully Lake near Shasta area but was an area of the Modoc Indians and the famous Modoc wars here and also by the way the home to the last Yahi Indian who was Ishi. Anthea Hartig:Ishi, alright. Karen Tei Yamashita:So I guess what, Im thinking here is important also to think about and say here is that regional representations of California are really layered with the erasures of history. Frances Dinkelspiel:You know this whole question of regionalism I grapple with it because I guess I dont think of myself as a regional writer, I dont think of people writing about Northern California or Southern California exclusively I guess I have this idea that California is in so many ways a state of mind and that you write about California as a construct more than you write, although you can have something wooded in Berkley or wooded in San Francisco, I think its you know, the state its been a lot of fluidity in state always and so that the boundaries are not very well defined and so. Anthea Hartig:But it might be that mobility of positioning you know it might be that I know Ranch of Cucomonga well which actually I do, thats just weird, that whats you have to know about me. Frances Dinkelspiel:So do I. (Laughs) Anthea Hartig:I know you do. But then in a dubby is that just part of some of the lens it over kit of glasses if you are intellectual lenses and or the scrims we play several hours so to see the rest of the world I mean I think theres maybe it is that it can be place Frances Dinkelspiel:I do think that well I think where you come from does greatly influence how you see the world and I was born in San Francisco, I lived in San Francisco for much of my life and now I lived in Berkley, Ive lived there for 20 years and so I do think that all the things that you talked about, the revolution, the hate, all the social tumult you know that is so much who I am and its you know just sort of like I think its affected me in the sense that I kind of think well thats what life is you get you know, you have a set of beliefs and then a few years later you have to shake up those beliefs because other people bring in a different point of view. Anthea Hartig:Yeah. Frances Dinkelspiel:So thats, that I mean you know I think you could say that its true of both Northern and Southern California. Anthea Hartig:Right. Faith, what do you think as youve been listening? Faith Adiele:Yeah, I thought Karens way of placing it globally was so helpful because thats the way I think it but I think of myself as a global person and that my local existence is a result of kind of historic events but then you know I was involved the PBS on this project and the whole thing was like looking at what happens out there, how that it impacts and transforms the US so Anthea Hartig:Right. Faith Adiele:we go to Vietnam, we do some stuff and of course on that transforms all of California the result of that. So and a lot of my work is working with like first generation or mixed race students here in terms of just using personal narrative to transform the master narrative and to say were here now and your result, what happened in your home country and the result of then the immigration here and now wrestling with this new landscape they were in and trying to claim a space for yourself and to capture your parents stories and to put yourself in the narrative as well so Im, I dont think of regionalism per se initially, I was like I dont even understand what this panels about but when you place it globally and the fact that you have to act where you are it you know it makes perfect sense and theres something about the hybridity that happens here combine with the technology that Im finding really interesting, thats one of the things Im trying to look at how we then kind of use new structures, a new forms to recreate this heterogeneous kind of experience that we have and so Im really excited actually about kind of doing hybrid work and doing multi genre work coz I think that represents this experience for those of us who are so multi cultural, international that traditional forms. This book isnt going to you know capture that completely. Anthea Hartig:Right. Ellen I can see you. Ellen Ullman:Well, Im going to be a devils advocate, I dont think theres anything like regional writers. Southern writers are put in this category, I think its, it boxes in a writer and I think one thing is were all saying is that we lived here but are attached to other places and Im really going to be renegade because I lived part of the year in New York which was much put down yesterday as a place that no poet whatever live or no writer would ever want to live. (Laughs) Ellen Ullman:as better here and so I grew up in New York and year by year I as lived here for over 40 years I thought next year Im going back to New York. Next year Im going back to New York and finally I do lived there part of the year and so Ive always been attached to New York as well and to Paris you know, place I always want to go back to and I think a person is a mixed of where theyve come from and their family and where they live and where they have lived and where they liked to live and their imagination, I dont think there is a regional, I think maybe for researchers that maybe an interesting question but as a writer I just dont feel that way. Sorry. Anthea Hartig:What about your (Laughs) Anthea Hartig:No Im sorrys, not allowed. Frances Dinkespiel: But then how do you count for the fact that your books are set in California so you are a product of everything at the same time clearly youre fascinated by whats happening in California and want to comment on it. Ellen Ullman:Yes but it was because of technology, it was what I was doing at the time and I was very over that this was going to have a national, international kind of global effect you know how a sensibility was changing you know, and in sending theyre talking to a machine all day and so it wasnt about San Francisco, this just happened to be here at Silicon Valley and the South of market and this was where, what was happening, I find to live here or not, I think that would be something I wanted to write about but it was my own personal experience as a software engineer. Okay, youre right. (Laughs) Frances Dinkelspiel:Yeah, because I just think like whats happened in California was the technology is not really happening elsewhere there certain pockets and so you know coz theres something about California when youre exploring the impact of technology on some level youre exploring what it is about this place that you know sort of made this happen and is you know, you still encouraging it to happen. Ellen Ullman:Yeah, you know I, for many years there was this sensibility of these software companies, this like suburban Oasis you know this fake waterfalls and these campuses with grounds and you park there, it was just Silicon Valley wasnt a place it was just a bunch of fake campuses. Frances Dinkelspiel:Alright. Ellen Ullman:And that a very suburban feeling it really affect the people thinking so yes place is definitely Anthea Hartig:The one of the interesting through lines maybe up this whole conference and of with Silicon Valley have happened in other old you know groves or other old farmer orchard is that the Californiacans production and consumption of information started very early. In large part because of isolation of reconnecting itself to its empowers wherever they had been located then to communicating of course with the entire Pacific Rim and I think that the communication and you know Rebecca Sonek has her own theories about where you know, where the internet came from but Im struck by every time I go and see W.R. Hurst office at the Hurst Castle and you realized what he had was email, he just dont caught that, he would get up in the morning as you know hes a consumer of information, all those magnets were consumers of information and track down to headlines all around the world, he had the internet, you just had you know hundreds of people around the world telling what was going on Faith Adiele:And because Im thinking of this technological areas where theres great segregation actually thats one of the things Anthea Hartig:Yeah. Faith Adiele:you know kind of working on like how do you know Anthea Hartig:Like gender. Faith Adiele:Yeah, theyre completely cast based and theyre isolated Frances Dinkelspiel:Also race. Faith Adiele:Oh totally. Anthea Hartig:Yeah. Faith Adiele:Totally, yeah. So its Anthea Hartig:A new segregation. Faith Adiele:Yeah exactly and so Frances Dinkelspiel:Choosing white men are in Faith Adiele:Did I say that? (Laughs) Frances Dinkelspiel:Ill say it for technology goes white men, mostly. Faith Adiele:There is similarly Ellen Ullman:No, no, while you live you can see all the people going you know in the morning and going home at night, there are brown faces Faith/Frances:Yeah. Ellen Ullman:But theyre Asian. Frances Dinkespiel:Right. Faith Adiele:Right. Yeah so I mean, so Im like in this environment where people are doing kind of this performance you know cross the genre performance, spoken word, personal base, kind of from their different ethnic groups sort of things and then there this very, very elite kind of rich areas that seemed to be around technology and its interesting coz theyre kind of in parallel tracks but theyre not intersecting at all. So its interesting because you can you know you can fool yourself in a thinking that everything is completely mix and interrogated but thats not necessarily happening here. But you know my interest is those things are here so how do we sees those tools and use them at different sort of production because at least you know there are more avenues for literary production and dissemination here than you know kind of going to New York and going through that you know the traditional gate keepers and so theres a lot of kind of grass roots D.I.Y. stuff thats happening here that does make use of it, thats exciting. Anthea Hartig:I think displays you know for better than I do but that displays this remarkable diversity that is phenomenally complex and builds on itself to gain more complexity. Faith Adiele:Right and sometimes its a little too segregated that itself you know its like you go to an event and its all everybody in the audience are friends with the person and you know and theres people arent particulate in the way that they need to because were also kind of just recreating our experience for ourselves and for others like us so I would like to see kind of more pushing, Ive like to see these groups come up and wrap up against each other and kind of complicate our understanding as well because the mixing is a result of all sorts of tensions and you know a lot of blood we shed to get here and so I you know always want to make sure that thats contextualized within history. Karen Tei Yamashita:Im wondering you know I was trying to think about how this is all working you know were moving into the space of technology as a place that we communicate or reproduce kinds of creative moments on you know in spaces and then we feel that thats a place that we can be free or suddenly and but he can get on the internet to do something and yet is there a sort of originality thats been reproduced there and one of things I especially noticed is that there seems to be a kind of a race technology thats also be reproduce and its okay because its a robot or its a cyber person who just happens to be Asian again and a copy of a copy of a copy that sort of thing. And so Im, you know Lawsons have been reproduced and theyre being reproduced by my people too I mean you know by Asians themselves as if this was a sort of a, its a commercial capitalist selling point for you know, J Pop or Korean Pop and Im not sure what I think about that and Im pushing against it because so much blood was lost you know to move you know out of you know racial eyes, prejudice, stereotype positions and yet we seemed to go be going right back there and so thats one thing. And the other thing is when you come into this world as a person and a woman of color to write and you try to get out your work out there, there are certain kinds of expectations or you run into those expectations and they are regional and they are raced and they are you know all of those things and yet its sort of like whats the new thing out there and are you rubbing up against it, are you matching it and can we sell this. So Im always you know wondering about the politics of genre and how thats tie to regions and to languages and you know in the California and its like you have a setting in California and then all of a sudden the publishing of it and the marketing of that work is you know under all of these constraints that you would never thought about why youre you know in that room by yourself. Anthea Hartig:Yeah. Ellen Ullman:Well I would like to respond to about the, what is implicit in technology. I read about this enclose to the machine and in theres this kind of pre era boy culture and that mind set, that atmosphere is disseminated in the software, in what is created, there are sensibilities, theres something technology is a being, its that the people who create it have certain sensibilities and thoughts of who is you on the other side of it you know who is the user, another young guy, so or teenager now. Anthea Hartig:Right. Ellen Ullman:So I very much do think that its not in abstract, the robot its not an abstract, its from somebody, some train of thought and it is, well embody is the wrong word but and essences in there from the people who created this. Frances Dinkelspiel:Youve got me thinking about technology thing and this is probably not on total topic for the panel but you know theres been a lot of complaining in the press and articles in the press written about how you know technology is taking over San Francisco and its affecting you know rents and all that. But it sort of a curse to me that whats happening is just a repetition of some of the patterns of development of California where new group moves in and takes over and dominates and on some level subjugates the old group and so you might be able to argue that new technologist who are predominantly male who are either wider Asian who go and get their funding from the venture capitalist on Sunhill Road who are also many of them are from that composition and that they have sort of taken over certainly Northern California, the dominant converse, theyve dominated in the conversation, everything is feels like its about technology in the day in the Bay Area, I mean its such a huge issue and in some ways if youre not part of the exclusive group youre being kicked out or at least youre being sort of, youre getting the message that your work is less important that this is the moment of the rise of technology and I guess its been going on for some years but just your comments maybe think about how that you know, its just another example of some Anthea Hartig:The next boom. Frances Dinkelspiel:Yeah. Anthea Hartig:Well I hope that on how we doing, we leave a few more, leave a few minutes for questions. Okay, I want to thank my incredibly smart and articulate and powerful panelist and open up the floor to a few questions. Weve covered a lot of territory which is fabulous and if you can come, if you do have questions and youre able, please come up to this mic and if not we can bring the mic to you I think. Bill:Thank you very much. I want to ask you all something from the Southern California perspective. Anthea Hartig:South, that it has be. Bill:In Southern California we have this phrase about greater Los Angeles because Los Angeles is so dominant that it tends to pull over so much of the cultural identification and identity issues, fiction and non fiction production. So we talk about being from Los Angeles or Greater Los Angeles where in fact we maybe from very distinct region. As far as I know theres no Greater San Francisco phrase because San Francisco not allowed to be that dominant, theres the Bay Area which I think is slightly different but do you as Northern California Writers of Region, do you find a kind of, do you have to push back against a dominance of this city, culturally, historically, etcetera in terms of expression or is there more freedom openness and legitimacy to writing about places distinct from the city? Frances Dinkelspiel:Id like to answer that. I will start, I think one of the things in San Francisco, the Bay Areas is geographically very different than Los Angeles. San Francisco is a peninsula surrounded on three sides with water and I think that that and yet you know the bay area is a large metropolitan area. I think the fact that San Francisco is a peninsula makes San Francisco distinct in many ways from the rest of the Bay Area. Most people dont refer to themselves as Bay Area Writers I mean I lived in Berkley, I write a lot about Berkley, I do think there is like a Berkley sensibility thats very, its fine to say that, if youre from Oakland youre proud to say you write from Oakland, so I think that the fact that the geography is the way it is lands itself to that more so than the Los Angeles. Bill:Thanks. Anthea Hartig:Any other comments to Bills question? Faith Adiele:Lets say theres a difference between East Bay and San Francisco definitely. Ellen Ullman:One thing weve been saying that Southern California starts at Sunhill road. (Laughs) Ellen Ullman:Once you cross that youre in another country. Anthea Hartig:Oh I love it. Theres a remaking Ellen Ullman:I guess youll find Sunhill road. Karen Tei Yamashita:I actually a home girl from L.A. and I was born in Oakland and my family is from the Bay Area but we are transplants to Los Angeles but I was raised in Los Angeles so I could be on the other panel on the other side. But, so I think what happened from my family who were San Francisco Democrats or Bay Area Democrats in Los Angeles it was kind of hard to be Japanese Americans you know rather Republican you know as I grew up, Republican Japanese American Community and so as always working against that maybe in my own writing so and yeah, I know the Great L.A. But I was, I also spend 10 years in Brazil and those years was 70s through the 80s and then I came Anthea Hartig:Back. Karen Tei Yamashita:back and I actually, well Im married to a Brazilian and I have two children born in Brazil so we, I actually immigrate back into my own country and that change everything for me about the way I thought about you know the United States and my position in America and also in the world. Anthea Hartig:Did you feel more American, less American? Less, more Californian? Karen Tei Yamashita:More Anthea Hartig:Thinking about that great James Baldwin quote were you felt, never felt more American than you did in Paris? Karen Tei Yamashita:Yeah, when youre outside United States, yeah, you learn what it is that the world thinks of Americans and the kind of privilege that we have but I love California, I have to say that, after living in many places. Anthea Hartig:Great. Another question. Hi. Justice Mardegan:Thank you. My name Justice Mardegan and Im a seventh generation San Franciscan. If I live in Oakland I would be only fourth. (Laughs) Justice Mardegan:You said the panelist have a very profound statements this early morning, one of them is the gaps of history, the Chinese were here before Columbus and came back to the same part with the delegation that included the Filipinos and thats never in the history books. When you talk about technology and pre era boy culture, its everything including not being hold to get a sit on the bus. So technology is gorgeous and when it comes to the consumption of information but the cast system that its creating is more fierce than ever and is undoing, the second way feminist movement on doing the social justice from the 50s, 60s and 70s and I think its dangerous, I think our children are socialized strong. So Im a little person, I do a radicand, they open mic, I found the open mic seen here for nine years trying to learn how to write and its about a lesson of consent and what is sacred and emotional intimacy and girls are adding each other on the phone and calling each other dude and becoming very male aggressive in the wrong way like a 12 year old boy and Id like to know how we can, what can we, what be pivotal point so that we can change the direction of these phone cultures and very self centered and its not working how were socializing the next couple of generations, I really have no clue. Thats a deep question and so Anthea Hartig:But thank you for asking it. Yeah I know Justice Mardegan:Thank you. Anthea Hartig:it was well stated and from the heart. Thank you. Justice Mardegan:Thank you. Anthea Hartig:So how do we, weve talked about this culture, were kind of nibbled around the edges of defining it and we just had some more definition lay to top it so what is the next generation especially cultural Ellen Ullman:Im extremely pessimistic Anthea Hartig:And feel now Ellen Ullman:I think theres no push back, I think theres no push back against whats happening, I think I would encourage people who are creative to embrace this and use it to new effect instead of saying, no I dont want to be I for, I dont want to do this, I think people have to move closer to it, more people should learn to program, its part of basic literacy right now just the principles of how computers work and that the more creative people not technical, not 25 year old boys, excuse me, men, but its so predominant I mean the age discrimination is also amazing. But if more people embrace it of greater variety I think thats the only way to go forward. Anthea Hartig:Whats anyone think? Karen, Faith. Karen Tei Yamashita:Is the language is English but its also American, right? Because I remember when I was in Brazil and I was trying to take courses, it is I thought I have to get a job when I got back the United States and I did but I thought, oh I should get into computers so I took some sort of basic programming course and the Brazilians were having a lot of trouble with the course and I had no trouble because it was all English. So Anthea Hartig:California English. Karen Tei Yamashita:Yeah and so how was you know, thats also build into the thinking of the machine that internationally Brazilians now and Japanese, Asian, everyone has to. Ellen Ullman:Theres a huge battle going on under the surface, its not the public is not aware for control of the internet for taking control away from the Americans. However, you know the Chinese just want to create an internet that is close and controlled, well I guess its happening here, every nation is in a battle to make regulations that will favor their sort of government and yeah I think its, look the internet was invented here and thats going to predominate for a while, I think initially that was great because it was built to be open and democratic but that is changing and Im not sure thats good because of the governmental controls that are being put in so. Anthea Hartig:But also kind of as a students and participants and leaders and social justice, were in feminist movements how, back to your great question, is there still the potential to use this, to learn them well, learn the tools of the oppressed, oppressor to will return them, is that so leaving the right paradigm. Faith Adiele:I think its you know Im seeing a lot of happening in the East Bay. Anthea Hartig:Right. Faith Adiele:I mean they released programs like Black Girl Code teaching you know black girls how to code but then all these, also these programs that makes, it allows students to do you know face to face stuff so you know going into projects, going to Senior Citizens homes and interviewing a folks about their experience and then like you know coming up with the graphic novel together or radio programs so you know you have to have the rational faces in using the technology that really empower the entire community. Were doing stuff right now around transportation, getting peoples transportation stories about public transportation and Anthea Hartig:Immigration stories. Faith Adiele:Right, exactly. So I think their youth were doing amazing things still. Anthea Hartig:For your benefit and all of you and well going to end a little closer to on time but I want to offer a huge a round of applause. (Applausing)