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Good afternoon everybody. This is truly one of those occasions when I can speak the old clichÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â© truthfully that my guests need no introduction. But still perhaps you would like once more to welcome Philip Glass and Scott Hicks. A festival often provides an occasion for happy coincidence. Well after Brett Shehi had agreed to co-commission from Philip and Leonard Cohen, the new piece ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“Book of LongingÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ that is being performed later this week, Scott Hicks went to see Brett and asked him whether he would be interested in showing this film, that was at that stage I guess not even made, in the program for 2008. And so Adelaide gets to see both these in the same week, which is great. Speak up ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ tell him ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I will tell him. Scott can you tell us something perhaps about the genesis of this film? Oh, yes absolutely. And I am sure Philip will have an entirely other story. But well, to go ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ to go way back really, I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I met Philip about 10 years ago. PhilipÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s management discovered that I was a sort of ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know a tragic fan and they really brokered a sort of friendship between us in a way and we ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“we would see each other whenever we were in the same city and Philip was kind enough to ask me to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know, shows that he was doing and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ so that was all very pleasant and very interesting. But then about two or three years ago his management reminded me that Philip was turning 70 in 2007 ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ unbelievable isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t it? And ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and what did I think of the idea of making a documentary about Philip? And so I just sort of jumped at it really, I said absolutely, I would love to do that. I had no idea how that would happen, how we would proceed, what ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ what it would involve. And in the event I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in order to get started I simply bought a camera and flew to Nova Scotia where Philip was on vacation with his family. And that first night ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in fact I remember very well, I thought I will just leave the camera in the case, because you know I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t want to impose myself too much and there will be other people I have never met ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then I realized no you are just avoiding ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know the moments. So eventually I just pulled the camera out and started filming. And I think it was the night we were actually making pizza, anyway whatever. And so suddenly it ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it became you know very interesting, because Philip was cooking and talking about his music and his work and I thought well we'd made a start. So really thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s where it began and itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s been quite a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know journey to get it to this point, but you know here we are. Philip, what was it like having a guy with a camera following you around for months after months? Well, first of all just to say, there are two things to say about Scott. He is a very well known ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ a very good filmmaker. He just isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t making movies, he has also made documentaries. But he has another skill; besides being able to make movies he knows how to become invisible ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ believe it or not. This is actually the real skill of someone doing a documentary of a biographical nature, to somehow persuade you that he actually isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t there. And basically it just takes time, but it takes a certain a kind of a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ first of all the camera of course ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s part of it, it just looked like a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ a kind of little camera that tourists carry around. It didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t look like ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t look like a real ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ a proper movie could be made from it. So itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s a way ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Scott has ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s really, itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s actually ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I think itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s a skill that you must have developed, but he has a way of insinuating himself into your life until you donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t even know. So part of I think is after all I forgot that he was there, and I didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see the camera, and life seemed to carry on. And then also we ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we had a kind of an informal agreement that you have forgotten, but I havenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ which is that I didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t actually have to see the movie, because I mean it would be like as ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ if you had to get up in the morning and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and see yourself shaving, but you had to watch the picture all day. So itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s very difficult. You know one of the things that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that probably you donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t know, because no one has done this to you. But one of the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the things thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s most difficult about this kind of thing ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ anyone who's done a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and I've sat for portraits and I have had photographs and all this stuff, but itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s something that is very difficult to get used to. ItÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s basically we donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we see ourselves ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ when we see ourselves like that we see ourselves in private. But basically we are taking the private moment and making it public. So - and itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s very hard to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ to see it, it is very hard for us to see it ourselves. We donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see ourselves how as we walk, we donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see ourselves walking away from, we donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see ourselves looking, we have ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t have the benefit of doing that. However Scott has fixed that for me if I want to. I am not sure about that. But any rate, the thing is that I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and another thing I want to say is that besides ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he is a very fine filmmaker, just in making industry films or independent films, he is also a very good a documentary filmmaker in the sense that he can disappear, but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but he also ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he communicated to me very early that somehow he would be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he was on my side so to speak. And I think that has been true. I think ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and I have ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I have depended on that. He has always liked the music and we have gotten along well, so I never felt that I was dealing with an enemy, is that true? Well, thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s lovely, thank you for that. I had no idea that this was going to be a roast you know. But I mean ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ look itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s interesting because, at the same time you know when I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ when I started ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and that very first night and I would be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know, I was filming you, doing your pizza and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“and you started talking to me and I thought ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t talk to me, I am a documentary filmmaker you know. I am meant to be a fly on the wall, and why ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ are you talking? And then I realized that that was actually the nature of it, it became something of a conversation. I mean ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and really anyway that was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know it was lead by you, I think your instinct was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ was good on that. Yeah, I just included him in the movie as a role; heÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s not going get off that easy. But no it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and that really became to me actually one ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ one of the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ look, I suppose the thing that I felt was that when I set out to make the film, and my first conversation with Jim ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Jim Callow, Philip's manager, I said to him, look I think if there is a way that I can show people the kind of person that I have come to know, the kind of person that Philip is, because hereÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the thing, when ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ look, before I met Philip I have to say, I had a very different mental image of what sort of person this was. Oh, what was it like? I want to hear about that. You were ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you were austere, you were intellectual, you were minimalist, you know you were clearly going to be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“. All those terrible things. Terrible things; in your ivory tower, writing your music and you know and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then the first time we had lunch together in a restaurant in ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in Beverly Hills as a matter of fact, and suddenly there was this warm, funny ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know gossip. It completely surprised me. And I know Philip just, it turns out, is not that hard to get on with. So you know and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and that was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“. You could have talked to Anthony, he used to know me, quite a long time. I should have, but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ so really that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know the fact that Philip made himself available in that way and he ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know he was very welcoming and you know, there were doors that, you know I mean if ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ if you wanted to close the door that was up to him as well. And ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but at the same time you know, he was very generous and very sort of responsive. So that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but I blame him entirely for you know how it turned out, because it could have been something completely different you know. He could have turned into Philip Glass the icon on me, you know what I mean? UhÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“huh. Terrible. What a thought. You ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you said, didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t you Philip that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ excuse me, and you said, didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t you, that you thought it was a very good film but you wish it hadnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t been about you. Did I say that? You know ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ there's something we've never discussed this, we're only talking about now ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in fact there was a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I've been associated with some of these things before, in 1970 there was a short film, there was a four ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ there were four films made about composers. It was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ an American composer too and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we will get on to that, the third one was done by a guy named Eric DeMon ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Peter Bill was in the 80ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s, Eric was in the 90ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s and you were ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ so almost there has been one every ten years. We should have a retrospective. Well actually I am very curious. I think I have got the line wrong somewhere. I would actually like to see all four and to see ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it would be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“. Be careful what you are asked for. Well I might get it, but it will be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ now the interesting thing, the first film ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ which you probably havenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t seen, it takes place ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ this guy, he had the idea that I spent a lot of time with kids, which is true. So we had the whole ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ his whole section was filmed in a pizza parlor with ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ with eight and ten ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 12 year old kids all around me. So itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s kind of anticipated, did you know that? No, I have to sayÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ So the pizza thing ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the pizza theme ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I think that should be a whole symphony, the pizza symphony. There is going to be a pizza symphony but it just occurred to me that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that in fact that thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s how ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s how it started. Peter Greenway did a very complicated ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ of course Peter. He ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he did a very complicated piece where he had a special camera of course that could view you from different angles and that was completely scary and he is scary and the whole thing was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the other way - the most more recent one was Eric Demon the French guy and that was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we were in Paris ago that we got to do a little bit of that. But in a way by the time I met you I wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t so ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t so afraid of you fellas as I might have been. You'd had a bit of practice too, so that was good but it was - I mean, how it would work out after that was that you know I was spending some time in New York on and off, I was in a you know a period of time when I was making commercials for American television and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Than what was being told. Indeed which Philip scored as well so and - so I would choose things that as much as possible would put me into New York so that when I'd done the work on ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ on the commercial I could then sort of go around and pester Philip, you know I could just turn up in the morning and knock on his door and Philip would answer the door and I would go in and film whatever he was up to and so it really became part of the pattern of ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I was probably writing music, wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t I? Turns out, you know dots on paper is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Yeah. Probably another title when I go to play that there because thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s what you do ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s what you do. Talking about the title, apart from the obvious reference to music in twelve parts, why is it in twelve parts, why is it a portrait in twelve parts? Well, I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I, look I very quickly you know I - from what I knew of Philip beforehand, but also what I read and the things that I tried to sort of educate myself with to the best of my ability were - it quickly became apparent that I could not make you know a definitive film or sort of you know the comprehensive story of Philip Glass I mean this man has more than a hundred CDÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s out there for a start so where do you begin where do you end? So I thought ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s - I have to - the unique thing that I have here is you know tremendously close access and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and someone who is prepared to really let me into the room. So I thought well, I am going to make it very personal and very subjective and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and learn about the past and the various areas of work along the way, but all driven through the present and you know part of ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ part of me - early on I started talking about it as a mosaic portrait in a way you know ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know without making too much of a comparison, but say like someone like Chuck Close can make a - you know a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ a lifelike portrait out of things that are made like you know fried eggs and hamburgers basically, seen close up. So but by taking a number of pieces and putting them together that you could make an image and so thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s why I felt it was like a - it was a portrait, the portrait was meant to imply that it is subjective and itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s personal, itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s not the Philip Glass story thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s a much bigger story. This is what is it like to hang out with a hardworking musical genius for a year of his life and try to convey to people some of the pulse of that life as well as some overview of elements of the work you know so yes thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s where the portrait came from and then the twelve parts was a - you know as you say a tongue in cheek ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ slightly tongue in cheek reference to that seminal work and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and also I just - literally I felt that when I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ if I was putting up titles in the film and it said part three, part four I felt the audience would ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ they would like to know how many parts there were going to be you know what is it going to be, 64 short films about Philip Glass, you know so I thought tell them itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s 12 parts and then they will have to stop counting you knowÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Despite the fact that obviously it ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it canÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t be a full biography of Philip, we ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we had some interesting bits I mean, you have a feisty sister. Feisty? Yes, I think. I never thought of her that way but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but I know her so well so you know, but she is there ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ she is there. She is indeed. And my brother as well. Yeah, indeed. And my son I think. Yes. My daughter was always ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ my daughter was in Minneapolits and, they ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I wanted her ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I wanted her to be in the film and Scott did tooÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ so we both wanted her in the film, but she was simply never where we were and she has a family and two kids and so she didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t, she is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ is kind of got left out just but I think there are some actual photographs of her. Yea there are and in fact she was very helpful, Juliet was very helpful with ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ with family photographs and other sort of informationÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Come to think of it maybe she didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t want to be in the movie. She worked out her own position. Yeah. She was probably smarter than we think - you know - no I mean, Philip's you know Philip's family were very generous and very responsive and you know I -- you know I appreciated that enormously because it would be very hard to tell. I know why you said she is feisty, she is very protective of me and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and that made to someone who is not me appeared to be feisty that she ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that and she really is, she will throw her body in front of anything that she thinks is going to disturb me, dear woman actually. I was gonna say, either way she is a good sister. A wonderful sister. No, I think - and she is you know she - I mean she literally said to me you better not have bad things to say about Philip, you have me to answer to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know I just wished I'd been rolling at that moment. She also reviews my reviews and will send them to me whether I want to see them or not. Which of you chose the various colleagues who popped up in the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ which of you chose the inclusion of the various people that you've worked with who popped up in the movie? Well, you know it was really like this Anthony - we had this period of time that we were, there was a natural limit to - the idea was the piece ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the film would be done, at the end of my 70th - at that, it would have been done last year. We didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t quite make that schedule but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we did? Premiered at Toronto in September, so just squeaked into the end of that year. But there was a limit to how long we could film and there was certainly a limit to when we were going to begin. So it seemed to be whatever happened in that 12 month period is what happened, whoever was there, it happened to be a lot of work was done, also Davies is a conductor I have worked quite a lot with. So he was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he was around, he was in Canada ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ whoever I was with at that time wasn't ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ were there many people who did simply ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see them at that - for example I was very close to Allen Ginsberg but Allen did passed away a number of years before, so there was - I think he was off limits, we couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t get a hold of him. Unavailable. Unavailable, or he appears to be unavailable but he is -- he is actually most available one ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he is still available to me but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but in terms of ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we never thought about - I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t think we ever said who we would like to have in the movie, we just said well, who is around and whoever was there was what ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was about I think as much as we could deal with was just dealing with the present. Okay, whether it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ yeah, was it was sort of a self selecting process in a way I mean, for example Woody Allen, now this was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ this was something - Philip was actually writing the score for my film No Reservations and a couple of others as it turns out. And ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then one morning he said to me you know - Are you annoyed with that play? I am getting over it ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I thought I had my exclusive moment ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ no, no anyway, so one morning Philip says to me I am you know Woody has asked me to write the score for his film I said thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s nice when and he said now. I said, what do you mean now? You are writing mine film, you know, yes he said I canÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t say no to Woody ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t -- I am not sure that Philip, the word no is in your lexicon actually, but anyway so I said okay and more or less I said okay, look great, do that, but get me into the room with you and Woody Allen. Now that was the deal kind of yea, but maybe I'd remember that first of all he is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ works a lot quicker than you do. He finished ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he edited that whole movie in three weeks. I am not going to comment on that. Yeah and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and so we ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in fact thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the way he ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the reason I was so pleased to hear from him is he doesnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t work with ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ with composers, he mostly puts film music or he ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we call it needle dropping, he just does it that way, so I actually got a call ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in fact I got a call before he called to tell me he was going to call because otherwise as, say hello this is Woody Allen, said oh yeah sure thing. They didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t want me to hang up you know because no one would expect a call from him so ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but it was a very ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was a call that no one ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you wouldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t expect, any composer would ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ no composer would expect to get that call and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and I knew that it was just so that it would ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it would be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was out of my studio in three weeks, we were ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ werenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t we done with your movie by then? Oh no ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that went on, that went on for a while- Yeah. Yeah but that was a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ yeah that was how it sort of turned out, whatever Philip was doing and I would ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I would film. So the deal was that he got in the room and you did, but the thing thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s interesting about Woody, he's an extremely private person. I had lived in New York for 50 years and I had never met him and I had lived in New York for 50 years and I didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t have any friends who had met him. I don't know how he manages to be so ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the only people that he seems to meet are the press, are quiet happy to write about him all the time, but you donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see him a around very much and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and I had no ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and I - if Woody will talk to you, I had no idea when ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and he said well ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ so I asked him - by the way this fellow is making a movie about me, would you talk to me and he said oh okay. It was like that, wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t it? Yeah. He was very ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he said that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he said ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it had to be at the end of the day before he went to pick up his kids and he said the time it had to be but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then I walked out of the room because I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I actually didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it would have been uncomfortable for me to be there and have him talking about me, so I just left the room. But they ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ like there were other people ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I mean for example Bob Wilson, I chased him you know on his peregrinations around the world and never found him, I got lots of lovely emails back from him, saying love Bob, you know and somebody who never turned up, so you know that was it, so he selected himself out. He always writes very good emails, but he was somebody who was conspicuous by his absence I have to say because that whole ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that whole bit about Einstein was so lovely. Bob Wilson. We all feel that he is conspicuous by his absence and I have done ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I have done five operas with him and I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I have never seen him. So I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t wanna hear any complaints about his not being around. But he was lovely to see that bit about Einstein and to remember yet again what an incredibly seminal work that was. Well I had had ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I see I'd had this vision in my mind which was first of all to get Philip to the Met and they were very generous and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and responsive to the idea and I thought if I get Philip there and I get him on the stage and we talk about it and then out of the wings would come you know Bob Wilson and he would have the original drawings for the set designs and so on, but anyway none of that happened. Well no, half of it happened. I got Philip to the Met and Philip was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know and it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was a good, it was a good place to be, I mean it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was obviously ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know, and thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s such an important moment out of ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I think ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know what the big frustration for many years with this film? It just couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t tell a better fraction of the story, of anything really because even to make because even to make a film about the whole saga of Einstein on the beach and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and you know what Philip did in terms of going into enormous debt to make that production - Well Bob did too. And Bob in having that oeuvre for ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I mean tell us about that because I was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I thought ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ No it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ well Bob and I were very naive about opera we thought that when an opera house was sold out that the office made money. ThatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s funny. Well it ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t occur to us that opera houses are supported by governments and that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that in fact that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ for example in Europe or ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I will tell you that every opera seat is in a German house that was probably 50 marks or $50 or is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ is paid for by the government and the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the person sitting in the seat is paying a very small part of that. Well Bob and I didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t have any idea about that, so we were in the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ at the Met doing this sold out performance and we lost money, then they said come back the next week and we came back the next week, lost money again and then they asked us to come back another week, I said wait a second, we canÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t afford to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we canÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t afford to work here anymore. We ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ And you were back, driving taxis. And the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that poor fellow - he had to go back to Europe and begin to do Madam Butterfly and all kinds of things to make a living, but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but any rate it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the thing Bob and I had wandered into opera houses was really by accident, we didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t really know anything about the economics and we had a wonderful agent named Nina who was a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ she was a wonderful woman, she had a red wig and smoked a plastic cigarette, you remember that? And she was famous for ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you take her to the theatre ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ she'd look at things, she'd go right to sleep and then ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ after the play was over she'd tell you everything that'd happened, but at the end of this tour, this is a good, this is a really good story about - we didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t tell this on camera? No why didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t you? And ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and she ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ while we got through the tour, we had done about 35 performances in eight or nine countries and she ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we were up in her apartment in New York, her husband had been a famous Hungarian actor, I didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t know he was, but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but she had got and she was also present on Peter Brooke and the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the poor theatre the polish guy ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and she had taken us on and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and she had ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ she announced to Bob and I that we had ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it had been a wonderful tour and we had lost a $100,000 now this is 25 years ago, so that was really quite a lot of money and we looked and we were shocked, we said but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but we never had an empty seat, how did that happen and then she explained the facts of life to us at that moment, the facts of life in the theatre and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and she said well ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know she said well I wanted the people to see the piece, they had to see the piece, so basically I sold it below, below cost. So you lost money every night because the only way I could get people to take the piece was I couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t sell it for what it needed, I had to sell it for less and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and so you lost money every night and we were completely dumb founded and then she said, she said but you know someday you are going to thank me for this because this ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ she says ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ she says I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ she said this event will make your careers and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and someday you will thank and I had ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and she was right, she was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we were in debt for a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ for a number of years at first, but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but no one ever forgot that piece and she had the nerve to put it on and to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and but donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t forget it wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t her money that was being lost. But she thought it was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was a good thing for us and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and it was. But ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but we didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t know, I mean if had she told us ahead of time that we were going to lose $100,000 we would have stayed home. And continuing with the musical parts of the film rather than the pizza making parts for a moment, Scott I believe that you were particularly thrilled to have the opportunity to be involved in Beacon's premiere of the Eighth Symphony. Well yes, I mean look ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I mean in fact the year of kind of ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know hanging out around the edges of PhilipÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s world I mean was the most ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the richest sort of musical experience that you could imagine, I mean everyday I was turning up and privy to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know some of the things that Philip was doing, but along the way I would count ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ yeah that moment of seeing Philip, hearing the Eighth Symphony for the first time. I thought look ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I tell you what I thought and this, call this hubristic whatever you like. I mean I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I imagined ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know what would it be like if you could pull out a DVD and watch you know Mozart - hearing the Magic Flute for the first time for example and maybe in a hundred years time people could be doing that, you see because the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the notion of watching somebody experiencing or probably hearing it for the second time because you ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ first time you heard it in there, I guess but then ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ We guess ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ well we guess more than we know. I am not telling. Silly me. Obtuse, completely obtuse. Yeah I did ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I explained that actually once in a long conversation about how we see ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the field ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the foggy field ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ The foggy field yeah ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ yeah and why don't you tell people that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Well the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the idea was that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ what you hear is about ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ as if I looked out in a field that there was a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ a foggy one but I saw there was something there, but I couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t quite make it out, but if I sit long enough I begin to see the shape of a building perhaps and after a while I might see a few trees and this and that, but basically I am ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I am straining to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ to see in the same way that I am fighting to listen, trying to hear and trying to hear things I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I barely can hear it. I mean itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s just to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s that - but the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“the end thing was that that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that we had another conductor or the assistant well, he would be listening to this thing and he said ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he said Philip, I have to tell you the second clarinet is playing a wrong note and that is the note I couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t hear I mean it was a very thickly textured piece and he said are you sure and he said and then we would go and look on the score ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it was a wrong note but thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ there are people with superb genius kinds of ears. ItÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s interesting and I have said ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I have often said that, I often felt and maybe havenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t said as so much that ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that for someone who is destined to write so much music, I had been given very poor equipment. It seemed to me unfair, I mean why ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ why couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t I hear that second clarinet part being wrong, but Dante can hear it, the conductor, but he couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t write the music, it's like the whole thing is backwards isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t it? There's no justice I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ is there? Yeah, yeah in fact. You know, there was that experience I mean, of the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the Eight Symphony and then there was Waiting For The Barbarians and seeing the world premiere of that and the final rehearsals of that was quite astonishing. And you know it was just a year that was studded with these incredible experiences you know for a groupie especially just sort of you know hang around backstage and see what everybody was doing and you know ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ There's part you missed, I will tell you now. Well you tell me about that now. I was ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I was in the apartment next to Dennis, the conductor when he was conducting I was in my room writing Symphony Number Eight which he will ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ which he had to premiere a mere four weeks later I was still writing it and in the mornings I would ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I would - the pages I had written in the nighttime I would put under his door in the morning. Reacted that. He was happy to get them, he, at least he knew because we had the date for the premiere of the symphony was planned but it you know ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ The dots weren't on the page. Well, they got -- they eventually got on but ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ but we were actually working on ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ on Barbarians while I was writing that piece. Yeah. And they donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ they - But thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you know they, well the thing, it no longer astonishes me but it astonished me at the time, was that you know this was sort of like a whole cycle of work, that I was witness to and just at the end of the cycle one day I was working with Philip actually on the reservations and he picked up this book you know, itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s called The Book of Longing and he said ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ oh, this is what I am doing sort of next and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then of course says well, the Ninth ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ well no, then you joked that you wanted to write the Ninth and the Tenth simultaneously because of the Curse of the Ninth ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Yeah, I think about ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ no, no I have gotten Dennis has all commissioned the Nine and Ten together, my ideas of doing Nine and Ten together maybe ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Very wise. Maybe do Ten first ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ don't you think? Just in case. Just in case - It didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t work, anyway. So yes it was a you know it was a cycle that really the film reflected ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Yeah, actually thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s true. There was a body of work that happened around that time and then ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then right after that I began working on LeonardÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s piece and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and so -- and then the then some solo cello music and some other pieces and I am still ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ The choral work? Yeah, the Ramakrishna piece. And I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I am still in the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“this cycle now I ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ what I, the next opera which is the couple of operas are going to be the end of this I mean, I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t really know when ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ And there was Appomattox in the middle of all that just by way ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ About that yeah, Appomattox was in the middle of that. Right. So it was and Appomattox some of the pieces that happened. I got to tell you because I am not sure the film really even gets this across but here is what itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s like being in Philip's life for a day you know you might turn up in the morning at half past seven and he is having breakfast with his kids watching Frosty The Snowman on TV you know which I couldnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t get the rights for by the way and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and you know but he's already been up for hours doing all the things he does and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then at 8 oÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢clock he sits down he starts writing you know working on the symphony and then by 9 oÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢clock he is talking to the conductor about the opera thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s unfolding in ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in Germany you know at 11 oÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢clock he will wander out to the studio a few blocks away and make corrections on a commercial that he wrote ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 11 hours before, just before going to bed you know then he would you know and then at the end of the day a bunch of friends would come around and he would go to Coney Island and ride in a dodge 'em cars and rollercoaster and - I didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t do that everyday, come on. That just happened. You are exaggerating ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ you donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t need to exaggerate. But you know this was thing and by the end of the day I would be just shredded you know and Philip was sort of bouncing and ready to you know do the next thing and be up in the morning doing the same again so quite ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ quite extraordinary sort of rhythm and I could only sustain short bursts of it myself. Is there anything we havenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t said about the movie that we should have talked about? Well we probably said too much on it. What about the old spiritual advices - what about that? Well, you know I wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t really inclined to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ things I wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t willing to talk about I said look, why don't you just go talk to these people, they know more about that than I do anyway, so I gave him, I was able to put Scott in touch with a number of people but I wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ He would, I'll tell you how it worked I mean, we'd be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we'd be riding along in a car somewhere we'd been to some sporting session for No Reservations or something and Philip would say oh, there's this guy you should call in ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ in Mexico ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I say, who what you know - he has a phone number, I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t know if he will talk to you but it's up to you and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and that was really the way I interpreted was that Philip was showing me a door and if I chose to go through that door and follow it through then maybe people would talk to me but he was also very clear that he - there were things he didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t want to talk about Well mostly they did talk to you didn't they? They did, absolutely and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ What you donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t know is they all called me and said who is this guy ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I said oh he's just making a movie nothing to worry about. They said well, should I talk to him, I said, well, if you want to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ He is a master, an absolute master - sort of, absenting himself from the picture was wonderful I mean, totally - ok, Bob Wilson wasn't in it but Philip was barely in it now that I think about ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ And then ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ and then they said well what should I say I said well, say whatever you want, I never told them what to say I had no idea what they would say. There was a man from China, a man from Japan, a man from I would say from Mexico ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ they were interesting people, you like the Mexican guy, didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t you? I did ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I did, he was fascinating ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Do you? Oh yeah, I go mountain climbing with him in Mexico, I thought that was an interesting guy to ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ to talk to. As you can probably gather we ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ we could I guess go on forever but maybe I've just looked at my watch maybe itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s time for some of you to join in. We have a mic on a stand there what else do we have today? And we have one handheld one over there which that kind man will take around so if somebody would like either to go to that mic or stick their hand up, we will bring a mic to you.