Purchased a FORA.tv video on another website? Login here with the temporary account credentials included in your receipt.
Sign up today to receive our weekly newsletter and special announcements.
Good morning and welcome to this session. All state is here as a sponsor because we believe that the brightest ideas usually begin a sparks captured in conversations like the ones that we will have this morning. So we are very proud to be part of this process. This morning as Elizabeth said is a conversation about women in politics. And what an important and exciting time it is for women. We have woman running for President. A female secretary of state, and the first woman to become speaker of the house - confident, visionary, committed, passionate, intellectual women are taking center stage increasingly and are leading us into a brighter 21st century. Today's discussion will take a closer look at the rising role and influence of women in American politics and what our panelists believe the future holds. A well known voice and another very leading woman is our moderator this morning. She is someone who knows a great deal about politics, about Washington, about foreign policy and affairs and about the world at large. Andrea Mitchell has been the chief white house correspondent for NBC news since 1994. The network's chief foreign affairs correspondent and she has written a fascinating memoir titled "Talking Back: ...to Presidents, Dictators, and Assorted Scoundrels". What a great title, what a great book! Having covered every presidential election since 1972, Andrea is the most ideal person to lead and moderate this morning's panel. Thank you very much Andrea. Thank you so - very much. Thank you all and before we would have a conversation here, can everyone hear by the way - we would have a conversation here and then bring you all into it. We are blessed with an extraordinary group of talented people, women and man here today. Madeleine Albright, you all know, secretary of the state, professor, head of the Albright group, diplomat, scholar, activist. John Dickenson former White House correspondent, writer for Slate, an amazing journalist who brings years and years of experience in covering politics. Jane Harman, you know of course, Jane Harman the representative from California who has been a leader on intelligence, homeland security and long experience in politics and the Law. Senator Feinstein from California on intelligence judiciary, homeland security, the chair of the rules committee. Margaret Spellings is our educational secretary and the spark plug behind, no child left behind. All of you have great experience with the subject of women in politics and with women in public life. And in looking at this year's election, we look back to 2004 and women were majority of the voters in the democratic primaries in the early states of New Hampshire, South Carolina and Iowa Caucasus so women are playing an increasingly important role obviously this year with the candidacy of Hillary Clinton we are seeing a real really strong focus on women as a political issue. But we thought we would start today by talking about how hard it has been for the people on this panel to strike out in their own careers and talk a bit about personal stories. Jane do you want to start? I guess this was my idea but yes, I would be happy to start. When we think about women by the way I was looking at the Briar family and thinking what a difference it makes, that Sandra Day O'Connor has left the Supreme Court and now we have Sam Alito Just think about that. Personal stories, everybody hear broke a number of glass ceilings. Andrea certainly did, I read your book and I loved your book. And as a pen parent I realize what a pioneer you were when you were pen student many years ago and the first women on the radio station and you know, the rest is history. But in my case, I went to the democratic convention in Los Angeles in 1960 as a high school kid and I saw John Kennedy nominated for president and I was assured at his acceptance speech and my personal light bulb went off. And 30 years later I ran for congress. My the first political office I had ever attempted and was elected in a lean republican seat as a moderate democrat and I faced some tough races. But the reason I am telling this story is that all along the way at least for me trying to take trying - the decision to go to Law School, from women's college, Smith College, Smith didn't offer the law boards. So I had to go to Amherst to take the law boards went to law school went Harvard law school in a small group of women at the time, this was truly the dark ages. My graduating year was the first year that Harvard required Law Firms that interviewed students on campus to interview women as well as men. Guess what happen, women got hired. Imagine miracle miracles and now there are more than 50 percent in law schools and law firms. But all along the way the first senior aid to a California senator who were for senior aid who was female to a California senator who of course was male. But I was there watching the change in composition in the senate and the house in 1992 when I was elected and Dianne was also the so called Year of the Woman. The number of women in the house doubled, literally doubled but it was 13 and then it went to 25. That was the year of Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill, no one can forget that. And then in 94, the Gingrich Revolution most of those women or many of them elected like me in these so called marginal seats, they could have gone either way lost because there was this huge republican tsunami. And in my case I remained, but I was my margin of victory was 800 votes out of 225,000 cast. So it's been a long road, the point I would like to make is - now that I have some real seniority and I chair an intelligence subcommittee in the house is that women are qualified to serve in any position in this country. Anywhere anytime and it is really by my lights affirming to see how many talented women are in every single room. Every time there is a meeting in the House of Representatives. Whether they're chair committees, or new, or whatever they are, in either party, women are problem solvers. I think we come to to figure out what the answers are not just to point fingers at the other guy. And my suggestion is that when we have a woman in the white house which may be this time, may be soon. Our people will pinch themselves and say, why did it take so long? Why didn't we understand so many years earlier that the skill sets that women bring are so incredibly useful in such a dangerous and changing world? Margaret Spellings, we are having more women in important roles in this administration than in many previous administrations, I can't recall a white house that had more women close advisors to the president from Condi Rice to Karen Hughes to yourself to Hariette Miers I mean a small group of people, many of them from Texas which is counter intuitive to a lot of democratic woman who think that republican administrations don't reach out when what is the balance of power and what is the particular experience that you have had as a woman in Texas attached to this presidency and dealing with all the issues that you have seen from inside the white house and now in the education department? Well, I think you are right to point out that it's a longstanding relationship and then there is a trust and a cander there that you know is very fundamental and you know, I am proud of that obviously, I mean the president I mean people who have cycle analyzed it, Mrs. Bush used to say, "when I was the domestic policy advisor and Condi was the national security advisor, then I was in charge of everything domestic and she was in charge of everything foreign and that seems about right to her". So we did have influential positions, but I think it's also about the ability to talk to the president, or talk to your principal in a way that is honest and candid and unvarnished. And so I think you know, that obviously built up over time. Now Madeleine Albright we remember back when you were first announced for the cabinet in 1996. The cabinet members were all brought out on the stage and one of them a commerce secretary fainted. If it had been one of the women cabinet secretaries who had fainted, what would have been the response? Well, I think the response would have been she is weak, she can't stand up under pressure. She is menopausal. Or any number of things like that. I was just very grateful that I didn't faint. And I remember there was one particular speech I was giving on the Middle East that in fact I had been worked on until the last minute. And as I was giving it, I thought I hope the pages are in the right order and then I got more nervous and then I thought I am going to faint. And then I thought, if I faint this curtain is just over. So I think that it's just an example of things that woman cannot do that men actually can get away with. I think that a woman can not cry where as now it's a sign of great sympathy or empathy of a male office holder or candidate cries. I mean it was fatal to Pat Schneider but it was also pretty damaging to Ed Muskie that That was then and that I think now, - Probably not yours, it was probably Snow Flick but we don't know. Well, I worked for him over snow, I can tell you. And David Broder who wrote the story "With tears streaming down his face" says it was wrong. I feel very personal that was wrong. But I do think what is interesting is discussions even today where president Bush chokes up or president Clinton chokes up and people think that's kind of a need. Whereas if a woman gets wobbly it is very bad and I think it's just one of the things when I wrote my memoirs, I had in a preface of it that basically the same adjectives, different adjectives are applied to the same characteristics. A woman is an aggressive, a man is bold, a woman is emotional, a man is sensitive. Doesn't matter what it is and I think that is one of the really difficult parts because in order to be in any one of our jobs I think that there does have to be a certain fortitude and a way of not looking as if you are going to fall under the worst pressure. Whereas on a man, it kind of looks like he gets it. And it's it's very difficult. And there is no question that we are judged on a different scale than others. You have brought up a Muskie thing and I just have to start the story because I went - ultimately I went I had done fund raising for Muskie but then I went on a staff and I was his chief legislator assistant it was called at that time. And then I went to the White House and Senator Muskie was not happy when I went work for the Carter administration and he was a very old fashioned man and didn't have the vocabulary down. What does old fashioned mean? Well, meaning that women had their roles, despite the fact that I was I thought you were speaking the codes. That's why I No, no and a very interesting in terms of how, who his advisors were and how things worked, so finally he said to me when you know, woman can't do congressional relations, which was the job I was being hired for, that made me crazy and I thought okay I don't have a problem leaving if that's how it feels about me. And then he got up, they were giving a party for me. And he gets up and he looks around his staff and he said "I am so sorry, Madeleine is leaving, she is just been fabulous and she was the first person to give sex to the office". And I said gender gender. Was it a large office? Anyway the vocabulary, that stuff is a little save me John. Well, I am reminded to of our current president, he talked about OB-GYNs who practice their love on their patients. I feel a little bit like Admiral Stockdale, Ross Perot's Vice Presidential candidate who went into the debates and said "who am I and why am I here?" We - but I think there is an Affirmative action - not any more. No I think there is a, there is nice piece of historical karma here, I should mention I am the son of a woman named Nancy Dickerson who was the first woman news correspondent for CBS news. And a great role model to every one here, every one in my business. That's right and they didn't let women do that kind of thing back then and she spent much of her career on stages or in rooms full of men as the only woman. So it's nice that it has flipped here. And that I am the only man up here. I am going to tell my own little tiny glass ceiling breaking story which was that 39 years ago, last yesterday my mother was on tv, and the next day she wasn't and Robert Goralski went on air and said "Nancy Dickerson would be out for a couple of weeks because she just had a child". This shocked her viewers because they didn't know she was pregnant. She had been shot always from about here up because nobody wanted to let anybody know it's bad enough she was a woman. Telling you know presenting the news that was controversial enough. But they didn't want lot of bleating womanhood with pregnancy. And so, I was hidden under the desk for Happy Birthday, Baby. Thank you. So that's my glass-ceiling story. But, it you know, it was I am looking at the covers this week from Iowa and we are anticipating another joined appearance in New Hampshire and this has been carefully structured by the Clinton Campaign. Let me ask you about the role of Bill Clinton as campaign partner first spouse. I mean you've covered so many campaigns; this is pretty extraordinary; the way in the first rally he was sitting on the hay bale; then there was a stool, how to get him off-stage. I mean, they have spent hours looking at how to choreograph this. So it's clearly, they are concerned about the optics. Very concerned. It's hard to to disaggregate to use a a phrase from you know Bush Education Policy, the problem the issues here. Because one is you have a woman president and that that Presidential candidate, and that's one issue. Then you have a very popular being in the Democratic Party also controversial within the other party former President on stage. And so it's hard to know what they are balancing here. It's a just a question of of ones spouse over shadowing another which you could flip the genders and and make it case where the woman might overshadow the man. It often is the case. They were the Dole campaign in '96 had issues and questions about now Senator Dole Elizabeth Dole overshadowing her husband's so much more appealing than he was. You know, of course they use that famously in the convention where she did a kind of Oprah style walk around. But so that's an issue for both sides. I think the the real challenge for Hillary Clinton, she is doing a a clear appeal to women and its why she she upholds among women in the poll so far, her closest competitor Barack Obama by two to one. It is the reason she has this advantage. She has a strong advantage with women who have no college education than women who do. And she is making a real appeal to women and it and its specifically women who have not voted a lot before; it what they call women of needs; which is women who only got college education tend to be lower income and that's where she is making the appeal. Of course the problem that's already been discussed up here and its been leaved by everyone up here is that if you play too hard for the women's vote and play the women's card, then you'll have all of these other problems that Secretary Albright mentioned the questions about toughness, and and also you get a potential back lash among male voter who see that Hillary Clinton is seen merely as a woman thing. So, it's this incredible type where I should mentions including remark that Barack Obama has the same problem with the African American vote. Lot of people felt that Hillary Clinton gave a more appealing presentation to the African American African American Community in the last debate because she could. Obama might have been seen some people say as kind of pandering too much. So he has to walk a similar tight rope with that constituency. Interestingly, after the South Carolina debate and Hillary Clinton has done very well by all accounts in the democratic debates. It's what she has really punched through. Barack Obama has had this extraordinary you know, fundraising ability and ability to bring new people in. And 250,000 contributors individual contributors, it's an amazing number so far after the two quarters of fundraising. But Hillary Clinton has been very very crisp and experienced in the debate format. Coming out of the South Caroline debate, I was on the air with the group and Pat Buchanan's was was one of the people involved. And Pat Buchanan's comment was she has just passed the Commander-in-Chief test. She has proved that she is the strongest of the democrats on Foreign Policy and has passed that threshold. Let me ask you as a Republican, Secretary Spellings whether you think women I mean Condi Rice and other women whom you have worked with in politics have a tougher time passing that test? Or do they have to do they have to go through certain contorsions to try to diminish the female side of their personalities, you know. Is is there a different standard? I I think they do. I think it's, you know spot management and and she can do it. I mean, she is certainly has proved that she knows how to strike that balance. I think she has been very very effective. But but I have also think it to John's point that you know, that Barack Obama has to overcome the State Senator label and so forth. So I don't think its limited just to to women. I think it's about age and experience and gravitas and how you handle yourself in tough situations which she has proved over and over again that she can do etc. So, I think its its in part about that, but not only. And Senator, is there a double standard still at your level or when you reach your level of seniority and you know on you know, feels Such as intelligence and judiciary dealings. The answer in my view is very clearly, yes. And I think people have to look back into how this nation began. We just went through the Fourth of July. Women didn't get the vote till 1920. Women couldn't own property. Women couldn't go to many schools. Women have had to fight for everything they have received in this great democracy. And there are still yard deep seeded prejudices and biases that underlay the American electorate when it comes to electing women. I have been at this, I think longer than anyone up here. I remember in 1969, when I first ran, women did not support other women. There was a kind of jealously and envy. I heard many people say, under their breath, "something must be wrong with her marriage;" and that's why I was running for the board supervisors at the time. Then in 1990, running for Governor of California I remember addressing the wives are something called YPO the Young President's Organization. These were wives of men who were Presidents of corporations; and I think under 39 years of age. And they liked what I had to say. In the end I came and said, "What can we do to help you? And I said, "You can contribute to my campaign." And they said almost two person, "We'll go home and talk to our husbands about it." So, Women ask their husband; to a great extent, women still do. The major donors still in my campaigns and I have had 15 of them essentially are men. And yet today, I get a substantial vote from women more than men; having said that, - in my view, Women have to work for and earn everything they get along the way; nothing is given to them. They have to be better prepared in a press conference because if you knew the press, are going to press the question just to see how much you know. So you don't dare not to do your homework, virtually every step of the way. Now with respect to Hillary, and all of the things that we have just said, I think she still has a major job cut out for her. Because she is going to have to take what is a long standing concept that women are not as strong as men. We know that in many respects physically. But women are not as strong as in other's respects. Determination, motivation, drive, staying power those things that are ephemeral that really determine an individual' long term effectiveness in the bottom line, its effectiveness. So I think, despite what the poll number say, - what's going to carry her is essentially the vision thing and the kind of America she is going to provide as the leader of this nation should she get there. And whether a majority a strong strong majority dominant of women are willing to say, "This is really what I want." And I would submit that if Hillary Clinton wins the Presidency, she does so by a substantial gender gap because I think where she'll enjoy very strong male support. It will not merely equal the female support. I think today, women are supportive of other women. Women are proud of other women. Women are willing to the extend they can't contribute to women, and women have a sense of what the world should be. And it's not to a great extend the same sense in terms of the use of power. And I think, that's going to be how she is going to say she is going to use power is really I think going to be a very compelling feature in this election. I just wanted to add to that. One of the I I think Hillary Clinton's strongest selling point is that she's an excellent senator. Dianne Feinstein has been an excellent senator much longer. But women do excel in senior political roles and it's on display all the time. And I just would hope in all these stuff about is Bill upstaging Hill, and where is the chair and what color yellow did she wear and you know what did her hair look like. That was his color yellow. Oh its his color yellow. Excuse me I I misread it - I would just hope that she I don't know what exact role he should play or not and I do think that his popularity is testament to fact that his presidency was a very impressive presidency. But putting down aside she should talk about her life and her view of the issues which she by her self has demonstrated that she has a huge grasp of and I think that that will impress every body and you know as a comment about is she strong enough to be commander in chief. I have no doubt about that, I have no doubt that Madeleine is strong enough to be commander in chief, Dianne is strong enough to be commander in chief. I don't know Margaret as well but let's go there. Lots of - certainly Andrea, my god could be you know take on anything. Secretary of the Army. Secretary, no that's not a strong that's not as senior position, but women have arrived, we can do these things. We do have the experience to do these things and we can take the tough decisions, we all have done that and also have a human side, I don't mean that men don't but every one up here has family stories to tell Sydney Harmon has arrived imagine here he is. And I have only said that being married to Sydney is much harder than being in politics. Say as an introduction. Well, just about to Well, just about to some of the data that John mentioned and that you are mentioning as well about the gender gap. When John mentioned that the gender gap right now in the polling - in the Washington Post polling in April, which polled deeply droved on the women's issue was two to one Hilary over Obama and that her real advantage, her 15 point lead over Obama was largely because of this gender gap. 51 percent of democrats and democrat leaning independence were supporting Hilary over 24 percent supporting Obama and as you mentioned the differential on college graduates versus high school graduates, it was that women that of need, women who had less education and more reliance on the social safety responded more to Hilary than the better educated women these were just the sort of responses. I did of focus group that we put together out side of Philadelphia a couple of weeks ago and it was really interesting to see that the one republican swing voter that we had in this very small group, said that she was if she didn't want to vote for a republican so far as what she saw, the war was the biggest issue for her. She could vote for Obama but not Hilary. What offended her and they got into a quite an argument about this was what she interpreted as Hilary's aggressiveness what the other women said was their strength and her virtue. And again this gets to the sort of sub text of how what Madeleine was describing as you know good attributes to some are described as negative when they are attached to women. John, do you think that it's the way we and the press focus on these things. I mean. We use different adverbs for women than you do with men, let me just say -I'm out of order- let me just say that. A woman complains; a man states it, you know. A woman whines. Yeah a woman I mean I watch it over and over and over again there are different adverbs applied to women. Can I also make a statement or may I... What was interesting when my name was up for being secretary of the state people said that there is no way that I could deal with foreign governments particularly Muslims as it turned out I had no problems at all having arrived in a large plane that's the United States of America, but and frankly because I was representing the United States and they knew that they had to deal with me. I had more problems with the men in our own government. Not because they were all male chauvinist pigs but because they had seen me come up the ladder and they - I was a friend of their wives or I had been a car pool mother or I had been a staff and I was really good at making coffee and various things and I know they were thinking and they said it how come she be the secretary of the state when I could be the secretary of the state. And the truth is that you think that it will all be over once you have the job, it is not. And I think that's the hard part that you deal with is that even though you actually do things and I was probably tougher than most of the men in our administration and I was the one that obviously President Clinton was the one that made the decisions but who decided that we would use force in Kosovo in order to save people from ethnic cleansing and it was the men who were not quite sure whether we should do this and my hardest part was actually when I was UN ambassador and was general general Powell who was chairman of the joint chiefs and I felt very strongly that we were missing the boat on Bosnia. I was in New York, I heard all the time and I argued for going and using force in Bosnia and the various other men at the table said don't be so emotional Madeleine, and general Powell said you know Madeleine you don't understand what the military does. He I say this because you know he wrote about it so I feel comfortable talking something about - he said I practically gave him an aneurysm in suggesting that we use forces in Bosnia and that he had to patiently explain to ambassador Albright what our troops are really for. I was just a mere mortal female civilian dealing with the hero of the western world who frankly, I love Collin Powell and we were great friends but he would come into meetings in full military uniform with tons of medals and ribbons, I just had a little pin and so - there really was this kind of you know what is she talking about, so he writes the book. He had already left office as we all know it takes so longer to get a book printed than when you have written it and we had used force after he left and we had won and so press was asking about it so I called Collin and I said, "Collin, patiently?," and he said, "yeah, I did have to explain to you patiently, you didn't have a clue about what you were talking about." So he then sends me this book and he writes it with love, admiration etcetera and signs it, patiently Collin so I sent him back a note and I thanked him with lot of admiration etcetera and I said forcefully Madeleine. I seem to recall during the Bosnia debate - internal debate in the cabinet. You at one point saying to Collin Collin why do we have this great military if we are not going to use it? Right - and we the truth is that a woman to a great extent who has not served and men who have not served do have a disadvantage, in talking to the military that is true of our current president, and our former president and it is going to be a problem with the next president because there are very few that have actually served. But I think there is a way to show a commanding presence but it is hard. I don't think any of us can deny that its hard. We have made it but it's not easy. And the part for me that was the weirdest was that having become secretary of the state and if I may say so frankly with a lot of support from Hilary Clinton and then confidence of the president of the United States, every single day I still had to prove to the chairman of the joint chiefs the secretary of Defense, the national security advisor and all the assorted male people around that I could do the job, and I am sure Condi has exactly the same issue it is not some thing that is solved the day that your elected senator or member of congress or secretary of education, it is some thing that or major correspondent, it is some thing that goes on all the time and I think we have to deal with it in a way of knowing that its never over and I and you talked about what a battle its been, the thing that drives me crazy, if I may say so, the younger women who think it's easy it is not easy and it slides back wards so easily and that's where I think we need to remember that we still need to continue to support each other because the fight is far from over. One of the things that is so really painful, as a women I have done a number of interviews for Sandra Day O'Conner when she was on the court and when she was off the court and in her comments about the importance of having at least two of them and seeing the strength and I think loneliness and anger now for one woman on the court in her dissents and some of her other comments, it really is striking that there is you know Jane talks about 50 percent of the women out of law schools and law firms being the 50 percent of the lawyers being women now and I have one women one the Supreme court is- But Diane you had dinners actually of the women senators that I would come and meet with it was it made a big difference. Yeah I think it did make a big difference. I think for us for this time this was several years ago and Madeleine came and I think at time we were nine women in the senate we are now 17 but nine and we sat together we looked around the table and here is a secretary of state and here are women senators and it was interesting with conversation was because it it was a high level conversation I think and yet we had an opportunity to stop and laugh and kind of identify together as women. This is a lonely arena for most of us we work very long hours and you don't really know who you can trust to let your hair down in Washington so one tends to be fairly guarded and I thought there were wonderful unguarded and very privilege movements of that dinner Madeleine. If I could just just speak to that too there is a community of women in Washington. Many of us are in collected office some of have been in appointed office and some newsiest in the group but it is a very supportive community and that happens outside of Washington too. It is a bi partisan community the women caucus in the house is bi partisan just imagine there are 70 women in the house I am not sure every woman belongs to it, but it is a place of sanity in a toxic sea where women can actually talk to each other work on things together but also enjoy downtime together and talk about the family stories we all have I was remembering Madeleine and I were in a carpool when we were Senate staffers, just imagine 1000 years ago we both had little kids and how life has progressed now we are both grannies which is a wonderful occupation I recommend that highly. But the stories started then and and I am very proud of the fact that that my group of friends is this accomplished group of people not because they are accomplished but I am proud of their achievements. Women should not be threatened by the achievements of other women it's a great thing when more and more women are qualified and competent and we will celebrate a women president I hope in my life time certainly in the life time of some of you its the right thing to happen in this country where majority of the population majority of the talent pool and we are qualified to do this. I agree with all of this you said about how hard it is but I also want to say that I do think that there are some advantages and I want also first stipulate that I am in a space that is considered to be the woman space, in education not national security and uniquely as a republican that you know we were the first people that showed up and cared that much of education if I do modestly say that so called different kind of republican and so forth and have had more vigorous growth of most republicans talking about abolishing the departments and so forth. So I know that my universe is little different but I find I can and do say things to my colleagues and to the president in a way that is passionate emotional and sometimes shames them if you will I think that's a something that we can do that's more compelling about you know you talked about saving lives in Kosovo, humanitarian issues and so forth and I think women do that effectively and compellingly and I mean I can I can silence I mean a group of male hard liners pretty quickly if I have got my act together, I am not trying to minimize how prepared you have to be. But I do think there are some advantages and there are some skills and there are some nuancs and it's not all dower and dire. And well one thing that questioned me is also just to make one counter point with in having covered secretary Albright around the world and I can attest to the fact that when that plane landed at the first gulf states conference and you marched down the steps you represented the United States of America in a very very strong and forceful way and people paid attention but the one thing that that you can say about gender is that it really is the way you use power that whether you are a man or a woman having covered secretary Powell and secretary Rice there is a big difference in the way they are received in different capitals because once the hardliners in Bush one the Bush 43 first term once they marginalized secretary Powell in middle east in particular and it was one pretty embarassing occasion we were in in Ariel Sharon's backyard waiting for press conference and Ari Fleisher announced a new middle east policy from the white house. We think that just as Powell was about to try to put some word to Sharon on settlements policy and had to back down when he walked out not having known about it we of course were getting the messages that this is just happened. So there was the marginalization of Collin Powell in those four years which many people felt was really unfortunate and the one thing that among others that Condi Rice brings to her job is access to the Oval office, people - foreign leaders know when she arrives that she is speaking for this president know they respond on her based on her attitudes towards the Oval office but they know that they don't have to go around the secretary of state and work through the vice president for someone else to really understand Bush policy and so its not always gender, its power and how we use it and access. John, in covering politics how has the press code changed over the years in terms of gender I remember you know the Timothy cross book voice on the bus the carousing of the 72 campaign when there were just a handful of women a lot of them drinking and then Cooky Roberts and others of us who joined the press core in subsequent years, the late great Andrea Roy from the Washington post. We bonded together and some people suggested that changed the whole nature of political reporting and made it a lot more straight laced and boring. No no I could name and I won't, the women who were in the press core now - who were - make it anything but straight laced and boring. A couple of interesting historical in 1960 convention where my mother was the only woman at the time they were all waiting outside of LBJs a room waiting for him to issue his statement about his view on the fact that John Kennedy had just got the nomination it was a hall way full of men at the Bellmore hotel and there were two women, my mother and a reporter for Life Magazine and the majority leader saw this two women in troubled. This isn't good just kind of leaning against the wall in the hall way so he invited them into the parlor. All the man who had been in hall way waiting to find out what the majority leader was going to say lost it and just caused quite a ruckus because - and the majority leaders who still didn't say what his view was said oh quite boys you know I am just offering them a seat but this there was a lot of tension here of course because why if the woman wants to be treated like man is she getting a seat. About a half an hour later just to prove how if this was an advantage it was a teeny one. Walter Conkrite on the air for CBS and he is vamping because they don't know what Johnson is going to say and he is got the the ear piece and he is saying you know we were waiting to get word from the majority of leaders he has gone to bed he is in his pajamas and now we switch to Nancy Dickerson who is covering him. Now television was new so you know across America they thought they would see quite a picture indeed. Anyway that's an end of course my mother had to deal with a lot of rumors which when you are the only woman and you have access and you break stories - every time you break a story particularly with with Johnson when he was president immediately everybody thought well we know why she got the story so at your moment of highest achievement this would be the wrap against you and of course the wrap was most ardently battled by your male competitors. So you know I saw there are times when particularly when I was in the white house press core surrounded by woman covering the white house for the major papers for the other news magazines and for the networks that that I do you know that it's just wonderful to see how - that's really there are some of it you know when there was lots of things that have been talked about here I want to know that all in the terms of the way the reporters behave and the way they get categorized but it's nice to see that it changed at least a little bit from the way it was in the 60s. I would like to pick up on what Spellings said because I do think that there are a lot of advantages to being a woman in these jobs and in my case certainly in dealings with foreigners because and I think that doctor Rice probably has the same issues which is that it is possible to create better friendships and understandings and also there is a little bit of possibility of switching signals better I mean I don't know how she operates but I basically was very nice and charming and friendly and asked kind of human questions and then I would say I had the standard phrase I have come a long way so I must be frank and then you could move from one to the other and I do think I mean - short of one thing, I used everything I had so you know, it was basically I did it when I was at the UN and I did it as secretary because and as a result of that I continued to have very close friendships with still a lot of current foreign ministers and a lot of former foreign ministers who in fact remember the personal aspect of it that I do think men have more problems with. Let me tell a tale out of school with your forgiveness because when you became secretary of state, the state as I remember was still really a whole-boy Network. And you and I talked about that before you took office and we did a quick interview the date that Madeleine Albright was sworn in and I did a profile of you for the nightly news which I kind of liked, I thought it was quite important, it was the first woman secretary of state and I had known you before and you know, before we brought something to the table and you at that time had an assistant secretary for public affairs and you had a little reception for everyone afterwards upstairs of the state department after the news after the swearing and when the day was over. And one of the things that I had mentioned was that the new Secretary of State was going to shake up the whole-boy Network. And this was a State Department that still would not let to foreign service officers who were qualified and to be ambassadors at the same time and married people had tremendous disincentives at the times, there were a lot of built in discrimination in the foreign service and so that was one line in this piece and afterwards at a sort of reception the Assistant Secretary of state for public affairs came up to me and took great great umbridge at that line in my piece. And said you know, I don't know whom you talk to about the discrimination of the state department but that certainly hasn't happened and it hasn't been like that for years and you know, I didn't want to tell him that his new boss was my source. For one of those insights, but that was it's not just in politics, it's in all aspects of those of you in private business know this and as well in you know, the media, in government. There are certain built in assumptions about career ladders, I have certainly experienced it and I know you did and it is - there was something very different about seeing a woman Secretary of Education, Secretary of the State, National Security Advisor, Senator, Congress Woman. It sends a signal when they are as talented as the people up here are and others of there like it sends an important signal to boys and girls about possibilities and that is one of the things that I think one of the values that I think attaches to having more people more diverse population you know, anchor people whatever. People who publicly can project possibilities to a younger generation. It's also an obligation that we have to mentor and support younger women coming after us. It's absolutely critical that we do it because it's as Dianne said "a cold and only place out there" and there are obstacles they face, and they make different choices my own daughters were making different choices. We have a daughter that - whom we call what I call the anti Jane. She doesn't read newspapers or she claims not to and then she gets upset when she hasn't been told that I am on some television program. And I say that "Honey you never watch it" and she says "Yeah but all my friends do and now you have embarrassed me because I didn't know". But at any way, in spite of that she is you know, very capable wonderful woman, but she is making different career choices. I respect that. But lots of women and men, younger - want to make these career choices and we have to help them make those choices and we have to explain that may be you can't have it all at once but you can have it all if you organize yourself well. And yes you can have a marriage and a family and yes you can have friends and a little bit of a life. But yes you can have a powerful career and all of that can be done and if we don't make that clear, we are not doing we are not exercising our power responsibly in my view.